The 4-minute post

[dotinthesky]

I'm unprepared for today's cold spell, my lips are chapped, and I'm wondering why perfectly intelligent breeders straight people insist on using the word gay in a derogatory form:

Did you see her outfit last night? She looked sooooo gay!

Oh my God! Backstreet Boys are soooo gay!

I was, like, on the phone to my friend Chad and he said the gayest thing!


We are not amused. By "we", I mean gay people who have grown up knowing that something was slightly different about them, who had effeminate voices (like myself) and had to put up with other kids calling them names. Why do you want to squash us like that? In any case, "gay" means happy - so why try to bastardize the word and make it negative?

Are you one of those people that reads Vice magazine because you are soooo cool, and you feel soooooo post-modern and above caring? The people who I've seen using the word "gay" in a pejorative form are people who have gay friends. Maybe everyone is so sophisticated and beyond caring. Maybe I'm guilty too because I've made mix tapes for my friends with Patti Smith's song "Rock and Roll Nigger".

Should you and I not care about words anymore?

Comments

[sarcaustik.livejournal.com]

It's funny how words change their use... 'gay' has undergone a complete reversal of fortune from the original meaning really. It is insulting to hear the word used in an insulting context. I find it slightly annoying that people use the word 'girl' as a euphemism for 'weak person' sometimes too, although I must admit I do use both occasionally amongst close friends in a non-aggressive way.

Unfortunately, ignorant pikeys are never likely to achieve anything more than a rudimentary grasp of language and so certain words and phrases will always be subjected to blanket missuse. It only serves to make them look thick and inarticulate, so I would try not to dwell on it too much.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

You are probably right. The people who I've seen using the word, though, are quite intelligent and nice too. I'm just curious because on one hand they expound great care for gays but on the other they use the word "gay" pejoratively. Maybe their gay friends gave them permission?

[dilvalicious.livejournal.com]

I am guilty of using gay in that way, but it is more the way I was raised and the neighbourhood I grew up in. I think it is worse when people still use it, but think that spelling it ghei or something makes it better.

I also say things are retarded, and I cannot stop myself.

And hey, you know I am bisexual, but that is no excuse. I just think that people are far too politically correct nowadays, and that people have become far too sensitive regarding certain things.

*shrugs*

I haven't even had coffee yet, Ollie, so don't be too harsh on me. At least I am admitting I do say it...so anyone who decides to be noesy and bash my comment to you, I will just ignore them.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

I think you are right in the sensitive aspect... maybe I'm being too sensitive. I asked Kevin today what he thought of it and he said it was the one thing he hated. Also, my younger brother is "retarded", i.e. with mental difficulties, but that hasn't stopped me from calling people retarded. It's definetly based on my conditioning (people around me using it) so perhaps the whole "gay" thing is also that.

[dilvalicious.livejournal.com]

yeah, it sucks, and I don't like to use it as an excuse, but if growing up, you were around lots of people who spoke that way, it tends to be something you aren't fully concious of. I do catch myself at times, before saying gay or retarded...but often it slips

[missarrow.livejournal.com]

I think that English has to suffer through how people use it...more specifically, the word 'gay' is in a weird limbo where several different slang meanings compete with each other for usage. To be honest, when I say something is 'gay' (I'm guilty), I am not even sure what I mean. I certainly don't have any actual part of my brain actively considering a comparison with a homosexual. At the same time, I know that I can't claim to use a word without considering or realizing its meaning...

I also think the evolution of language is, at once, an incredibly sophisticated and incredibly dispicable process. :D

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

It's true, words are almost changing their meanings too fast - and perhaps gay is just one of them. Just look at the word queer too, how it was once very derogatory and has now been co-opted by the gay movement.

My main beef seems to be the schizophrenic use of the word: applying it for negative things and experiences on one hand, followed by a descriptive use of a friend or loved one. It's like that other word "bitch" - which can be used to denote power but also put a woman down (depending on who's using it, I guess.)

I vote for more consistency in word-usage so I don't have to take so much time deciphering people's intentions!

[mr-manifesto.livejournal.com]

I have long gone by the motto that words have no meaning until you give them meaning. So I find people getting insulted by words to be the bigger offence. I could sit here telling you to fuck off in a language you don't understand and you could perceive what I'm saying to be anything, but then if I told you the meaning of what I was saying would you then take offence at the same words you had previously assigned no meaning to? If so, then the offence is all in your head.

This is one of the problems with American (and to some extent Canadian & British) society today. There are now words that are verboten. Why? Because some ignorant fools wish to take insult from them? Well they are the one choosing to get insulted, why should I be denied hearing language spoken to satisfy what is going on in some moron's head. Trust me when I say this. If I really want to insult someone, I can do a far more effect job of it, by using articulate language above crass terms & expressions like: Fuck you, nigger, faggot, tub-of-lard, asshole, etc, etc. Those stupid words and expressions are meaningless. It is the audience that chooses to assign the derogatory meaning and take offence.

I am sick and tired of a politically correct world where our freedom of speech is slowly being chipped away at because any number of groups of people choose to get offended. When will it stop and who has the right to decide what is kosher? If someone uses a term that upsets you, you can simply choose to discount them as a person, but words by themselves can not be offensive. Only the individual is capable of making them offensive in their own head.

I am reminded of what Dee Snider (singer of rock group Twisted Sister) once said. "people kept calling me a sick motherfucker. But I like who I am as a person and if they are calling me a sick motherfucker that must be good, because I'm a cool person. So I must be a sick motherfucker and that's just great. I'm proud to be a sick motherfucker." I think these are words to live by!

[missarrow.livejournal.com]

So true!

[4q.livejournal.com]

This is a really cool thing that you just wrote, and it's funny Ollie, that you mention this because I was just thinking about the word slut, and what it means and then I read, and posted that article by Mark Morford. And it's really what we define the words as. I mean I swear, and I swear a lot, but that's just me, I don't do it to be shocking or offend people. To me they are just extreme words to express my emotions. Like wow that song is so fucking good. I mean that's something I say all the time and think really nothing much of it. But other people would be shocked and offended that's part of my regular vocabulary. I don't know.

I agree that our society had definatly swung too far the other way, and our language is becoming so santized to make sure that we dont' offend anyone. It's part of life, we can't just go through always feeling good about everything and everyone. Sometimes things shock and offend, sometimes they disgust us, and sometimes they make us happy. I just think that we are losing a lot, by being afraid that we may or may not offend someone with the words or phrases that we use.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

Good points. Still, I think certain derogatory words are used more often than others because they bring less risk to the person who is using them.

For example, you might not feel undeterred at all about using the word "faggot" because deep down you know that if a gay person is around, they aren't going to call you on it or try to beat you up (most likely.) But would you be as comfortable swinging the word "nigger" around a room with big black guys? It's not about their ignorance in seeing your words as just words - it's about a historical link to the word which brings pain to their experience, which brings shame. Words can create images in our head which are quite strong. Try calling your grandfather a pedophile and see how he reacts.

As human beings, we have to agree on a decent form to address each other - so we can live in peace. Being a shit disturber might be good fun for a while, and it's certainly the "punk" thing to do, but it doesn't contribute to a peaceful world.

[malaniat.livejournal.com]

Though I understand what you're saying I have to disagree. To say we simply choose to assign meaning to things is to ignore the kind of conditioning many people recieve in their childhood. For many people the words "nigger", "fag" etc. have direct emotional connections to ostracism and physical abuse that dates back to childhood. Plus, these words have histories of mass murder.

I'll be honest too, maybe I'm an overly sensitive person, but that's the way I am, I've tried to change but I can't. Any term of hostility no matter how flaky, innacurate or even if it's something I'm proud of hurts me. The sense of hostility itself hurts me.

[sparklielizard.livejournal.com]

When you call someone a bastard, do you mean they have done something that's particularly wicked or naughty, or are you criticising them for being born out of wedlock? Yet bastard was originally used for the latter purpose, but it's got distorted over the years.

Same with "gay". When I say a television show is "gay", I don't mean it's homosexual, or even that homosexuality is a bad thing. The usage of the term "gay" in that context may have originally have had homosexual connotations, but I sincerely doubt that most people using it now would even consider making the connection.

Lots of people around me have used the word "gay" to describe something that is crap; as a result, without thinking I'll pick up and use the terminology too. It may have offensive overtones if you interpret what is said to its literal meaning, but of course, 99.9% of the time, no offence is intended, or even considered. I appreciate you might find it annoying (in presumably much the same way I abhor the casual use of the c**t word) but I think for most people using it, it has long since lost any negative homosexual meaning which is why so many of your friends use it.

I'll try not to use it around you if it upsets you that much though; it's just something I very occasionally say at present - I'll probably pick up another word before too long to use instead.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

To be honest, it doesn't offend me that much. I was just curious because it's a very schizophrenic use of the word: applying it to both negative and positive things. I think you explained it well why people use it.

[waves-in-space.livejournal.com]

this is in response to something i read below:
i'm sorry, but saying that words have no meaning until you give them meaning might have been correct when they were first used or given definition, but now after so many years of use all these words you're talking about have significant meaning- historically, culturally, you name it. saying that someone is making them offensive in their own heads is silly, and i don't know if this is an 'american' or whatever you want to call it 'thing'- i don't think it is at all because there are far too many people who run around saying crass racist terms thinking it's cool to be un-pc, or whatever you want to call it. saying that i CHOOSE to get insulted when someone calls another person or myself a racist name is ridiculous. of course i can write that person off, but why should i sit there and turn the other cheek? why should i sit there and say 'oh its not offensive unless I CHOOSE to see it as that'. that makes no sense! of course its offensive, thats why people say it! i highly doubt never hearing the n word again is going to significantly ruin anyones life- in fact i think if it were never heard again it be a positive thing, atleast in the context that it is used. as for the rest of it, i don't care if i hear 'fuck you' or motherfucker or whatever curse words, i don't think thats really in the same boat as a racist remark or even in calling someone a faggot, these words all started as something negative, and the meanings haven't changed all that much regardless of how much everyone wants to claim that they have.
as for your freedom of speech? say whatever you want, no ones saying that you don't have that freedom, but its a matter of choosing to be someone that abuses this 'freedom' and runs around saying abusive and derogatory things just to prove a stupid point or choosing to be someone that recognizes the fact that people have feelings, these words have meanings, and they are GOING to hurt and why is it necessary to use them in the first place?

[waves-in-space.livejournal.com]

sorry, something i read ABOVE, i forgot this posts at the bottom.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

See, I agree with you. I think to myself: "why would someone intelligent choose to use that word when they can say it with so many better ones?" Using the word gay, for example, just strikes me as facile and juvenile - something kids do in 5th grade because they don't understand what the "gay" experience is.

Sure, people can say whatever they want, but that doesn't mean that they should say anything! If they are intelligent, they should think it through first and put it as a challenge to themselves to try to be witty and smart without stooping to such easy insulting words.

[lala-jones.livejournal.com]

it's a linguistic fact: a speaker's intention may or may not be transparent; the only way we communicate is through the shared understanding of conventions. (i could say "blitter" and mean "obnoxious and ignorant", but no one else would know it. so i would say, "obnoxious and ignorant", because those words have denotative meanings.)

the connotations (and denotations) words have are absolutely historical, as malaniat said, and relate to discourses and events that exist in the public consciousness, in fairly ordered ways. "Gay" used perjoratively doesn't mean just "lame"; it got to "lame" by way of such concepts as "lacking in forcefulness/power/effectiveness" > "effete" > "failed masculinity".

(parenthetically, the perjorative/so-called-"lame" "gay" is unlikely to be used with regard to female nouns; people use it to talk about male or generic (slanted toward the male, by default) nouns exclusively. would you say britney spears or kylie minogue is "gay/lame"? how about nickelback?)

like o says, it's not a question of mere political correctness, but linguistic precision and sophistication. using vague language is not just boring and offensive and ignorant, it's less insightful (and therefore, less incisive, critical, funny, etc.).

[idioticpoet.livejournal.com]

Whenever I hear someone use the term "gay" or "faggot" in speech, I usually poke fun at them sarcastically. Usually in the form of- "what's wrong with being happy? I'd rather be around someone that's happy, than some angry person."
Or, "nah, what drugs are you on? That in no way resembles a bundle of twigs".
After making statements like that to people, they general take the hint at stop saying that around me (and hopefully others).
Besides, isn't it kinda petty to worry about what someone else is doing in their bedroom? I've always been more concerned about (lack of) activity in my own.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

You've hit the nail on the head.

[jeffster.livejournal.com]

i dunno. it doesn't bother me in the least when people refer to something as 'gay'.
i feel stupid when in conversation and someone says it and feels they have to stop to apologize to me, even tho we all know they didn't mean it as a 'homosexual' term. my friends aren't bad people, i'm not gonna yell at them so something so trivial, especially when it doesn't bother me in the least.

i have had to say something in the past when at a party or something and someone's just gone overboard with it...but it's very rare.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

I was homophobic too - a nasty one! And I was gay... which makes it worse.

[ickycrawlything.livejournal.com]

Awe, you know what? I'm one of those people. I use the word gay and queer like nothing. Never in front of any gay person but that's really only b/c I don't know any, except you. I guess I would say it and not think anything of it, I don't know....maybe not. But you're right, it's insensitive and stupid.

[commonpeople.livejournal.com]

I just think it's too easy a word - there are better and stronger ones to be used.

So you have never known a gay person before me?!?