dotinthesky: (Default)
[personal profile] dotinthesky
I find it ludicrous that the Portuguese police wish to turn the parents of Madeleine McCann into suspects [Google News]. Anyone who has been following the case from the start and has an ounce of common sense knows they are innocent.

To me, this is just another notch on the long list of errors and mistakes the Portuguese police have committed. Starting from a crime scene that was not protected (anyone could wander into the room and check out the bed from which Madeleine was kidnapped) to material needed to be flown to the UK for DNA tests because they didn't have adequate facilities, the whole investigation has been a joke and I'm sympathetic towards Madeleine's parents fight to keep the case on the news - it's not like they could rely on the Portuguese.

I can see how seductive it is to believe the McCann's did it (as already seen in most tabloids): it plays into many people wishing the McCann's to be punished for leaving their children asleep while they dined with friends; it plays into our desire to see a Hollywood lining, a conspiracy theory, behind any crime that becomes major news; and it plays into the hands of news addicts who need a twist in the story to keep them interested, or their tabloids selling. But the truth is that if you look at the whole thing objectively, it's impossible the McCann's did it. Remember, they were in a resort with plenty of witnesses that had seen them with Madeleine until dinner time (leading to an initial suspicion that someone had photographed Madeleine at the beach); they were in a foreign country which they didn't speak the local language nor lived there; they were with friends during dinner and had no time to get rid of the body; and as soon as the alarm was raised (during dinner) they were surrounded by the media, the police and their family/friends/lawyers to the extent that they would have to be Houdini to sneak a body out and bury it.

The truth is that Madeleine was taken by a stranger (as witnessed by one of the dinner guests, who only realized the gravity of what she saw afterwards) and is now buried somewhere. Like the thousands of children that disappear each year, we'll probably never know the truth. As for the blood found in the car the McCann's rented 25 days after the disappearance, if you consider that these are parents holding on to any memento they have from their lost child, they could have easily carried into the car a piece of her clothing that had blood (from a nose bruise, from a cut) - the kind of minuscule evidence they were not even aware of as they drove around carrying Madeleine's old stuff - and some of it remainded in the car.

A part of me wonders if this latest turn in the investigation was some cynical arrangement between the McCanns and the police to keep the story in the news. But then I can't imagine the Portuguese police would be so crap as to allow that kind of manipulation to take place. It's more likely that they wanted to pose new questions to the McCanns, the kind they are not allowed to make if they are not suspects, and thus the reason for the whole charade. What a circus.

on 2007-09-07 04:43 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] moveslikegiallo.livejournal.com
My thoughts pretty much exactly. Plus, consider all the criticism of the McCanns' parenting in the press - "we left her alone while we went out for dinner" isn't exactly an ideal way to cover up what happened, is it?

on 2007-09-07 04:44 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] moveslikegiallo.livejournal.com
I phrased that particularly badly. Bleh.

on 2007-09-07 04:58 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
Plus, if you are guilty you don't turn your daughter's disappearance into world wide news! You slink back to the UK and hope it dies away.

I don't think you phrased that badly! :-)

on 2007-09-07 05:22 pm (UTC)
canudiglett: (minger)
Posted by [personal profile] canudiglett
Although I don't think it is impossible that the McCanns were responsible - in an "expect the unexpected, nothing would surprise me these days" kind of way - I was surprised how many people thought that was the most likely possibility when I did an LJ poll about this the other day.

on 2007-09-07 05:24 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
I just don't think it's possible, at all. I'll be very surprised if they turn out to be guilty.

on 2007-09-07 05:37 pm (UTC)
canudiglett: (minger)
Posted by [personal profile] canudiglett
Krys's post explains one way it could have happened. It's quite far fetched, and would mean the police had been incredibly sloppy in their investigating, but not totally impossible. I was surprised to learn that Kate McCann's interview yesterday was the first she'd had since the day after Madeleine disappeared. I think that if it had happened in England, the police here would immediately have treated the parents as suspects until they could 100% rule them out.

They wouldn't have had very long to think of a story, which explains why the one they came up with involved them being negligent, and the "going around the world publicising Maddie's disappearance" could come until the heading of "protesting too much". Do you remember the case of Tracie Andrews, who went on TV emotionally appealing for help to find her boyfriend's killer, and turned out to have done it herself?

I'm not saying this is what I think happened... I think Maddie was almost certainly taken by a paedophile in a planned manner... but you never know!

on 2007-09-07 06:29 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
The police have been sloppy, but they were there from the start helping the family search for Maddy. Even drains and holes were searched straight away, in case Maddy had fallen into one (the most likely theory in my opinion at first).

There are plenty of examples of mentally disturbed parents that kill their children then bring in the media circus as a form to deflect attention. I remember this woman in America who drowned her children in her car then claimed they had been kidnapped by a black man. But in this case, I find it hard to believe they would a) work togethre to cover it up, including very convoluted behaviour, hiding, cover up, etc b) would both stand the pressure on themselves for so long, even as they bring on the entire world's media on themselves (the story is even followed in Brasil!) The other parents were eventually found out to be guilty because of clear indications that they were mentally unstable; we haven't had any evidence of this kind regarding the McCanns (Brian Adams song on their website not withstanding).

I'll keep my mind open about this one since I agree with you that weirder stuff has happened, but I just think that the evidence points more towards sloppy police behaviour that allowed a pedophile to escape rather than anything else.

on 2007-09-07 08:25 pm (UTC)
canudiglett: (minger)
Posted by [personal profile] canudiglett
Yes, agree with you totally there.

Whatever happened, I just hope they find out what happened to her and she doesn't turn into another Ben Needham. One thing I think everyone can agree on is that she must be dead by now... maybe the body will be found soon.

on 2007-09-07 08:27 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] pixxers.livejournal.com
I honestly don't think these people harmed their child. I think they took her safety for granted and will be paying for it for the rest of their lives. I remember the Susan Smith case and can remember being completely unsurprised when it turned out that she'd drowned her children - she seemed guilty to me and, at first, nobody suspected her.

These people, though...how awful this must be for them.

Most surprising to me are the reactions I keep seeing on my flist. As though they must be guilty simply because they allowed it to happen at all. There's no court that can punish them more than they've already - and will continue - to punish themselves.

on 2007-09-08 09:17 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
Their guilt at leaving the children alone is their biggest drive. It's the reason they wish to saturate the news with stories on Maddy; they are so desperate to get her back and prove they are not bad parents.

on 2007-09-07 08:52 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] armoury-kim.livejournal.com
I have just seen the headlines on the Evening Standard and like you I don't really believe they did it either and least of all the mother.

She seemed genuinely distressed in the early days of the "abduction" and even looked like she had been given somthing to make her calm.

What an awful situation to be in. Lose your child through having a moment of madness and then get accused of murdering her.

Why would she murder her only one of children and especially when she had to have IVF to have her?

on 2007-09-08 09:19 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
Some people believe it was an accidental death, and they tried to cover it up. But it's impossible they had a place to hide the body. The alarm call was made during their dinner, they didn't have a car at the time (they were on holiday, etc) and the entire premises and surroundings were searched. I just don't think it's possible they did it, but I guess the police are desperate and without any leads - willing to tag them as suspects in a last bid to solve this.

on 2007-09-07 11:46 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] moral-vacuum.livejournal.com
Stop being so reasonable. Join the rest of us in mud-slinging suspicion!

on 2007-09-08 09:22 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
I thought it would be more interesting to be contrary this time around, and swim against the current. :-)

on 2007-09-08 01:08 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] sallypointzero.livejournal.com
You cannot argue this, or any reported crime, from logistics standpoint (eg. that the police 'would have searched every' hole roundabout: this makes the immediate assumption that a police search is 100% successful EVERY time)

on 2007-09-08 09:23 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
In the early stages of the investigation, there was a huge outcry in Portugal as to why the police didn't spend as much time on Portuguese children that disappear. Clearly, a thorough investigation is not something the police in that area were used to performing.

on 2007-09-08 11:09 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] blu-bear.livejournal.com
The only thing that makes me slightly suspicious is that they've become so famous from the whole thing. People take their photographs like they're celebrities and they've caused this themselves, conciously sharing their grief with the whole world.

But then again as you said above, if they'd killed they're daughter would they want to become so famous? And I can't really see anyone being sick enough to kill their daughter just for fame, so you're probably right.

on 2007-09-08 11:44 am (UTC)
canudiglett: (mice)
Posted by [personal profile] canudiglett
They think that keeping Madeleine in the public eye will make it more likely that she is found. I would have thought it would also make whoever kidnapped her more likely to kill her too, though.

on 2007-09-08 11:13 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] blu-bear.livejournal.com
Sorry, consciously.

saidso

on 2007-09-08 12:14 pm (UTC)
Posted by (Anonymous)
I have to disagree. Facts aside (which I have to say you had researched thoroughly and do make all this really really complex), I think a number of profilers will tell you they did it.

Quoting Armoury kim from now on:

"She seemed genuinely distressed in the early days of the "abduction" and even looked like she had been given somthing to make her calm."

The one thing I got from the early days footage was that the police ought to ask her. I can't say excactly what caught my attention, but from a very small numbers of publicly displayed tv clips I just couldn't avoid getting the feeling she was really really careful where she was looking. Like she was afraid her eyes would give something away if she'd stared someone straight into the eyes. When they two were holding hands it just sort of looked more like a secret, silent support to pull her through those days than a consolidating emotional moment. "Distressed"? Yes. Mother who's life had turned into a surreal hell abroad? Absolutely not. I think she acted very self-aware and conservative to have her kid stolen and possibly killed, wouldn't you say? Was ever since disgusted when no clues were found, I just knew, with ever more certainty, it had to be the McCann's.. And I never read or heard anything suggesting it was them. Felt I was the only one who thought this was the case.

"What an awful situation to be in. Lose your child through having a moment of madness and then get accused of murdering her."

Seen the footage outside where she was questioned 11h? ..she was practically crying, yet by no means looking like she couldn't believe what was happening. "I got caught" was the text written on her forehead.

"Why would she murder her only one of children and especially when she had to have IVF to have her?"

Motive? I just felt it looked like McCann's were folks who wouldn't necessarily cope with a kid distracting every day life. The mother McCann certainly had that somewhat narcisistic look on her appearance that immediately made me think she must have been envious of her most gorgeaous daughter. Maybe we will some day know..

Also, wouldn't in the end be so surprised if her husband was the control freak that could have made this fly so long. Maybe not leaving enough evidence to ever convict them.

I'm not a profiler but now that they are suspect's, I have to admit I almost feel like I ought to be. I had just felt from the beginning that to get to the truth, the police should try and get it from the parents. Happy they are questioned now. I'm sure they will not be convicted if they didn't do it. Maybe not even if they did do it..

JH#27

Re: saidso

on 2007-09-08 02:43 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
but from a very small numbers of publicly displayed tv clips I just couldn't avoid getting the feeling she was really really careful where she was looking. Like she was afraid her eyes would give something away if she'd stared someone straight into the eyes.

Today's Guardian has a profile on Mrs. McCann's (http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2164608,00.html) behaviour at the start of the investigation, which explains her behaviour.

Derrick Pounder, professor of forensic medicine at the University of Dundee, said: "A body is not in very good condition 25 days after death, especially in a Portuguese climate. The decomposition smell would be obnoxious, lingering and very difficult to get rid of." - from here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2165017,00.html)

Clearly, the McCanns would need to be experts on murder and concealmentf of bodies to get away with hiding Maddy in a town which was thoroughly searched, before sneaking her away to be buried somewhere. And, they would also need to be experts in cleaning a rental car that was used to carry a decomposed body without attracting attention.

They didn't do it.

on 2007-09-08 12:26 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] sallypointzero.livejournal.com
Here's a case:

young pent-up parents on holiday with small fretful child...limited time to enjoy with other young adults: nerves/loss of patience/temper=slap child...unlucky fall against object/ child is lifeless...panic/cover-up/collusion to lie to the world no matter what/ etc etc etc

on 2007-09-08 02:48 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
All very possible, in other circumstances. In this case, the surroundings and the small window of opportunity (plus witnesses and friends near them) make it next to nil the chances that they did it. Today's Guardian has a good breakdown of the day's events and it's very clear to me they didn't do it.

err..

on 2007-09-08 02:10 pm (UTC)
Posted by (Anonymous)

If there was an accident they could just have gone forward.

Re: err..

on 2007-09-08 02:48 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] commonpeople.livejournal.com
Please elaborate?

on 2007-09-08 03:05 pm (UTC)

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